Curse

the_jos · Aug 22, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpotJorge

yer you and the 7 other guildies you have ... what about the other thousands that stoped DoA only because anet have listened stupid complains about ursan ... ursan never blowed game economy like many other builds and skills outhere .. DoA Ursan run was never been money ... was the fun of do a Elite Zone HM in 3 to 3.5 hours with 7 humans in party ...

have a healthy guild (and ToL have about 70 very active members) dont give you the right of broke others fun ... so only counting days for Aion come out and like problably will be monthly feed just hope dont find some persons i know from here playing that ...

whats next to nerf maybe pain Inverter? never saw noone say nothing about that super overpowered skill so here maybe something interesting for all start complaining

To be honest, nothing really changed only the majority of the community is to stupid to understand that!
They think that DoA is still as hard as pre-EotN.

There is two things most players seem to forget.
Just before (I think) EotN came out there was this one update to DoA that changed everything. Only hardly anyone noticed it. The change? A-net removed the environmental effects on Normal Mode.
Making the area a lot easier to play.

So the teams that enter that area already have a huge advantage compared to the 'old' DoA environment.

Next there is the true reason Ursan was powerfull. Consumables.
Take those away and you had instant fail in DoA in most PUG teams.
Those consumables didn't go.

You know what really breaks your fun?
Other players who are not skilled enough to see that DoA is still doable.
Don't blame A-net or the people who wanted Ursan tamed.
Blame those PUG players who only play for profit and don't want to have fun with you in DoA anymore because they have found a more profitable farming spot.

Joe Fierce · Aug 22, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpotJorge

Anet blowed game party when nighfall went out with heros ... more then 70% of people think that theyr heros are better then humans ... ....

No, human beings "blowed" the game by not being as good as my heroes, I'm sorry but, a majority of the player base is just not as good as Ai, lets face it, when you can flex a cast and interrupt it even though it's like a quart sec, then sure you're a better interrupter than my hero, but then you'd also have to learn to multi task enough to pick bones, apply death nova and jagged to ten minions constantly and still have the time to keep yourself alive as well as apply some supplemental damage on recharge with the two biles, then you're better than my heroes, Catch a spike with WoH like dunk, and you're better, PD like sousuke and you're better, pull up supportive spirits and constantly maintain weapon spells on my entire party all while healing like my xandra then you're better.

Heroes don't argue with me and insist on running a shitty build such as Searing against a dungeon filled with destroyers, heroes have good gear where as a pug may be wearing all sups, thalkora prots like a machine.

Heroes don't make me wait up on them to get a missions started, heroes don't insist on killing the extra group i know is avoidable, heroes don't whine, heroes don't rage, heroes follow my orders.

Even after the most recent update which greatly crippled them by introducing a few glitches (anet plz ffs get on this and fix it) they are still superior to a majority of the player base.

Yes, heroes ruined the game by being introduced, people ruined it even worse by having the skill level of a 3 year old and having a reflex slower than retards bone... People ruined the game by being elitist pricks and thinking titles matter and excluding those still working on them. People ruined the game by thinking material items define a players skill, rather than, say for example, their actual skill.

gerg-nad · Aug 22, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Some folks posts are certainly revealing as I suspect they must be very young to be so arrogant, tactless, and discourtous.

I also find it ironic that folks talk about PUG groups as if they are not part of that population, like there is a group called PUGs that they wish they would not join. Most problems with PUG is there is no team synergistic build, no communication, and no leadership. Players that are playing for profit are in the small gem farm runs or off on single character farms or off running folks for money, not playing in PUG teams.

Again, this issue is to adapt a team build, with some flexibility, that promotes and builds a community of players that routinely does DOA. That will enable folks to quickly join human teams and get on with playing the game and have fun with real people.

Folks that want to play with heros or only their guide teams need not comment, because that is not the issue, the issue is building a community of players that want to do DOA.

UnChosen · Aug 22, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Its Anet's job to make sure that each and every area are balanced for a reasonable portion of the majority. When one area only attracts an extremely small minority of guild groups, something is not right. Especially when its one of the more rewarding areas. (In comparison to Deep/Urgoz).

Joe Fierce · Aug 22, 2008, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerg-nad

Some folks posts are certainly revealing as I suspect they must be very young to be so arrogant, tactless, and discourtous.

I also find it ironic that folks talk about PUG groups as if they are not part of that population, like there is a group called PUGs that they wish they would not join. Most problems with PUG is there is no team synergistic build, no communication, and no leadership. Players that are playing for profit are in the small gem farm runs or off on single character farms or off running folks for money, not playing in PUG teams.

Again, this issue is to adapt a team build, with some flexibility, that promotes and builds a community of players that routinely does DOA. That will enable folks to quickly join human teams and get on with playing the game and have fun with real people.

Folks that want to play with heros or only their guide teams need not comment, because that is not the issue, the issue is building a community of players that want to do DOA.

I'm very tactless, yes, and occasionally discourteous yes, But, the problem with your posting on how "Again, this issue is to adapt a team build, with some flexibility, that promotes and builds a community of players that routinely does DOA. That will enable folks to quickly join human teams and get on with playing the game and have fun with real people." The motivation to create a build that is reliable with a pick up group is what's lacking, the only thing that would motivate people to play together more often is for people to have an open mind, learn something new, and to follow basic lead calls made by whoever's leading.

Until people become a little more reliant with eachother, a little bit more intelligent about their play styles, and less douche-baggy, guides geared towards pick ups rather than guild groups will be few and far between. I can agree that yes, i'd love to see a new build that is generally universal with some interchangable parts to it allowing people fit in every class in place of another, something semi balanced, but problem with that is that a build that would be so successful would of course require some testing, because any build on paper is still a theory until it's actually tested, you never know what's going to occur on the playing field regardless of how you compensate for things. And to be able to test such builds you'd need one of two things : pugs which are willing to have an open mind and try something new, or a guild that you can convince to go along with you through the bumpy ride, guildies are much nicer more compliant and willing to learn generally, whereas pick ups refuse to open their minds and grind through the tough spots of a build creation process generally, which is why so many people are gearing guides towards guilds, because why go through the trouble of finding a way of making a build interchangable if you're pretty much only testing it with your guild, once you've got a build down solid that your guild runs like champs why change it if it's not for the better?

It's not arrogance on guilds are better hardcore and heroes are better hardcore people (though we are arrogant) that is making it to where there are no more large groupings of pugs LFG! it is the fact that when there was large groupings of pick ups LFG! they refused to go with the flow and run what the party was running or requested of them, they refused to try something new, It's their arrogance that is to blame.

What killed doa?

Not anet,

Lack of Motivation.

isamu kurosawa · Aug 22, 2008, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Its Anet's job to make sure that each and every area are balanced for a reasonable portion of the majority. When one area only attracts an extremely small minority of guild groups, something is not right. Especially when its one of the more rewarding areas. (In comparison to Deep/Urgoz).

i'd say it;s Anets job to supply various levels of challenge to entertain as many people as possible.
DoA is on the higher end of the challenge scale and is supposed to be dfficult. If people cannot complete it there are many other aspects of the game at their level.

The problem lies with the players who want everything handed to them on a plate. That is why they found ursan so attractive, anything that was challenging was made so easy they could jump in, clear it in no time and pick up the rewards.

Joe Fierce · Aug 22, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

i'd say it;s Anets job to supply various levels of challenge to entertain as many people as possible.
DoA is on the higher end of the challenge scale and is supposed to be dfficult. If people cannot complete it there are many other aspects of the game at their level.

The problem lies with the players who want everything handed to them on a plate. That is why they found ursan so attractive, anything that was challenging was made so easy they could jump in, clear it in no time and pick up the rewards.

Agreed, greatly, Really the big problem is that everyone now adays is more concerned with getting in there as fast as possible and getting out as fast as possible so they can get their fancy shiny weapons, rather than being concerned with improving their skills to where they CAN actually complete the area legitimately.

Elder III · Aug 22, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

If you have a good Guild you should be able to do DOA just about anytime, otherwise you are most likely screwed.... other than Tormented Weps, I can't think of a good reason for it.... there are other areas that are more fun IMO.

UnChosen · Aug 23, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Well...I finally managed to get my guild to do stygian veil...and yet AGAIN after around 2 hrs there is the "sorry guys, I need to go out with my friends" and "sorry I need to go sleep, didn't expect this area to be this long"....DoA needs to be divided into 8 areas not 4 >.>

Personally I find DoA to be more of an endurance test than a challenge, once I got used to it, DoA's gimmicks are absolutely no surprise anymore. The problem lies in way too many mobs for one area that cannot be done in several sittings.

gerg-nad · Aug 23, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

The quad run, all 4 areas should take about 2 hours +- 15 minutes in NM, with consumables. Look in the Farming section to see some builds that will do it.

the_jos · Aug 23, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerg-nad

Some folks posts are certainly revealing as I suspect they must be very young to be so arrogant, tactless, and discourtous.

I also find it ironic that folks talk about PUG groups as if they are not part of that population, like there is a group called PUGs that they wish they would not join. Most problems with PUG is there is no team synergistic build, no communication, and no leadership. Players that are playing for profit are in the small gem farm runs or off on single character farms or off running folks for money, not playing in PUG teams.

Again, this issue is to adapt a team build, with some flexibility, that promotes and builds a community of players that routinely does DOA. That will enable folks to quickly join human teams and get on with playing the game and have fun with real people.

Folks that want to play with heros or only their guide teams need not comment, because that is not the issue, the issue is building a community of players that want to do DOA.

Ok, here is my opinion on this.
Several of my guildies or ex-guildies come from a DoA dedicated guild.
So there was enough challenge and fun for them to keep playing DoA, but I also know the cash they earned was part of the reason to keep going.

But that's not the main player base.
Let's get to those other two elite areas, Deep and Urgoz's.
Those were empty a long time before DoA went dry the first time (around the time EotN was released). And I know from experience that there used to be plenty of players around, specially in International.
So players shift around from area to area.

Next observation. Most players who got Ursan got it for a specific reason.
Entry to teams clearing elite areas. FoW, UW, DoA.
You know what those players did after the Ursan nerf? Create a perma sin, terra or FoC necro (or whatever the fotm is). Why? Because at this moment UW speed clears seem to be the next hot thing.
And the reason for that? Some challenge with reasonable income.
But not too much challenge, they want to succeed 100% of the time.
And on the income side, it does matter for a lot of players.
There is this HoM you know (and every Ursan player has access to that).
And filling it is a nice gold sink. Even before the HoM a lot of players had trouble managing their cash so the HoM only made things worse for them.
They need relyable income and DoA doesn't provide that at the moment.

I know teaming is an issue and has been like that for a long time.
Not only for elite areas but also for regular stuff.
Only if an outpost has enough players in it people will hang around and try to form a team. Else they will just grab some heroes/hench or zone away.
I know the general state of mind here on guru is 'PUG is dead/fail' but that's not how I think about it.
I've said enough about that in the past and do hope A-net will fix that in GW2.

Having a team build for DoA can't be that hard.
Kaiz's build worked and should still work.
If not, replace the tank with a perma-sin and it will probably work.
The team is available but people don't want to play it anymore.
And there must be a reason for that, like:
- they got bored with the area
- they think it will be too difficult (because they only remember the pre-EotN DoA)
- they are doing other stuff now that is more rewarding (either cash and/or challenge)

I think activity in DoA will be back in a while.
Specially when Tormented weapons are added to the HoM.
But for now I don't see any reason for PUG players to return there or at least not in huge numbers.

Junzi · Aug 23, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

DoA will be active again when the HoM update comes. I'm kinda half expected to see Oath Shot ursanway there failing epicly. What am I saying? I'm expecting everyone there to fail.

A maxed out LB rank is nice, but you can clear it as a tank with only R1. Guildie of mine did it ages ago with next to no problems. It's the same as the Hero Rank issue that annoys alot of newbies who can't get into groups or guilds because of the rank req. <- Something that should have been fixed long ago, to late now.

Ursan DID bring people back into forms groups, no one can say otherwise. Though with that nerf Anet basically said "Screw pugs, take heroes or get a guild that doesn't fail" DoA wasn't even that hard for the first few days after the ursannerf when old school teams were flooding in, it was the people who had never run OB tank, orders etc... or first timers who made the experence a pain in the ass for the most part.

Detroit Phoenix · Aug 23, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Love your opinion Jos! Very well observed. Will look forward to reading more of your posts in the future.

StormDragonZ · Aug 23, 2008, 11:37 PM // 23:37

I've tried getting into groups as a Ranger or Elementalist and I haven't been able to do so regardless that my Ranger and Elementalist have R8 Lightbringer.

My chances of doing any part in DoA are very small, so I see no point wasting my time waiting... I'm better off doing Underworld...

SpotJorge · Aug 24, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Anet basically said "Screw pugs"

.... now when i look at DoA empty in all districts avaiable only thing i can say is ... Screw you Anet ... as soon Aion comes out ill be out of here ... not thinking in return till GW3 is made

gerg-nad · Aug 25, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Maybe I am unique in this, but I play the elite areas for the full human teams 1st, challenge 2nd, and reward 3rd. Speed is also important, not sure anyone wants to spend hours to accompish there goals and what drew folks and me to DOA this last time, and was unheard of before, was to do a quad run in 2 hours or less. I am not sure everyone experience this, but what was even better for experienced players was HM for about 1/2 additional time, so 2.5-3 hours for double the reward.

I expect with the diminished activity in DOA the prices for items to increase again, which has partially happened already. I would rather see the acivity increase, but did enjoy the run while it lasted.

MisterT69 · Aug 25, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41

The only reason DoA is dead atm is because no1 frankly gives a damn. People these days no longer want to spend 2-3hrs clearing 4 areas then fighting a mutant monkey for some pretty gems. They'd rather spend 15-20 mins going into the UW, slaughtering the hell out of the place, grab some ectos and weps from the end chest, resign, and repeat. People want to make money in the fastest way possible, and if you consider how long it'll take you to get an armbrace doing only DoA as compared to running UW speed clears for 15-20 mins...well it's a lot easier to get the armbrace with the cash you make from speed clears.

So imo, the only reason DoA is dead...is cuz it's not worth it. Unless a new meta comes out that the average joe-schmo can use like UB that can clear in 2hrs or less, ppl are gonna stick with the speed clears.

DarkSpirit · Sep 01, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Fierce

Agreed, greatly, Really the big problem is that everyone now adays is more concerned with getting in there as fast as possible and getting out as fast as possible so they can get their fancy shiny weapons, rather than being concerned with improving their skills to where they CAN actually complete the area legitimately.

Skills are not as big of a deal in PvE IF you are in a helpful PvE guild and you have been playing for awhile. You would be surprised how easy it is to get through many of the toughest areas in the game if a strong team helps you out.

If everyone goes back to solo farming UW, then PUGs are indeed quite dead. I dont think most people DoA just to show off their mad skillz, before or after nerf. It is just a game. If I want to earn, I can make more money farming than joining an Ursan PUG.

I dont think I have ever PUG for the last year now because PUGs are becoming non-existant, unless you join a farming group. I have grown more and more dependent on my heroes.

Random Guitarist · Sep 01, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazybanshee

I've been in and out of DOA since ursan was nerfed and have yet to even see a group forming to do anything (other than a 3 man foundry team) Am I just going at the wrong times? Surely everyone hasn't given up just because ursan is basically dead now. Armbraces have gone up, gems have gone up. where the heck is everyone? All I ever see are people standing around talking about ursan being nerfed. Did everyone give up?

i only got into DOA a few weeks before the nerf. i dont find it as fun anymore so i stopped

gerg-nad · Sep 02, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Well I now believe that folks have moved to other areas as was earlier mentioned, whether it be UW SC or other places.